Gosh, this is fascinating.
Lying is telling something untrue to intentionally deceive someone. Omission is intentionally leaving out details to deceive. So on the topic of half-truths and omission, I think they can be just as bad as lying if the intention is to deceive. I personally think situations, like when Irena Sendler lied, are justified. But it’s not an easy topic and a multi-dimensional one. This is definitely something that has piqued my interest. I’m going to be looking into it further. Thanks, Phil Lollar for that 😀
….But tying this back to Morrie, he is still 100% in the wrong IMO. But I’m very excited to hear the whole interview.
Literally studying a book called The Prince by Machiavelli and come to the question of “do the ends justify the means”….
just can’t get away from this topic😂
Don’t think my teacher will understand if I use Morrie as an example tho lol
Incredible how this kids show has sparked such a deep debate about good and evil, can’t wait to hear the rest of the Morrie, Suzu, Emily arc!
Exactly! I love that Odyssey has dared go this way and started these discussions!
Machiavelli certainly believed that the ends justify the means. However, Phil doesn’t. He believes that the ends were good and the means were good. There was no need to justify them. That’s a slightly different topic and is more eerie in a way.
That’s definitely what bothers me the most about these episodes is Phil trying to tell us what Morrie did was right…..
I can kinda get on board with Morrie acting for the right reasons but justifying his actions goes too far.
Have you ever heard Lamplighter Theater “The Hidden Hand”
The main character sounds like Connie. One of the lines she says is “absolutely not.” So the answer of “was Morrie right” Capitolia comes crashing in on her hose shooting peas out of a gun saying Absolutely Not!!
Haven’t listened to the whole thing yet, but it sounds like the person interviewing Phil Lollar is saying that half truths are OK, which I don’t think they are. But I agree with Mr. Lollar that God uses people to fulfill his will, in some cases lying to protect peoples’ lives. I believe that telling the truth should always be a moral standard, but some of Christ’s commands take higher priority, for example protecting others.
No, the person interviewing Phil is not saying that half truths are ok. And Phil is absolutely wrong that we get to pick and choose what moral standards to follow in order to “protect” others. What made you think I believed half truths were fine?
You kept talking about them as though that was different from lying somehow. If, like you guys were talking about, some bullies asked you point blank where the kid getting picked on was, would you tell them, and risk him getting hurt/killed? I think you have a moral obligation not to. You can either say you don’t know, which is telling a lie to protect the innocent, or you can say that you won’t tell them, which wouldn’t be lying, but could mean you getting hurt/killed. That decision is up to you. However, as a Christian it is your duty not to say where they are. That’s what I believe.
You said that God telling Samuel to go to Bethlehem in ‘disguise’ is “a half truth” so you’re saying/admitting that God has told people to tell half-truths to fulfill his plan, which as you say are as bad as lies. So you’re saying that it is permissible to lie under certain circumstances, which I agree with. God will not hold us blameless if we let someone die because we failed to lie to keep them alive. So you sin if you tell a lie, or you sin by letting someone die. Once again it comes back to a “hierarchy of values.” If you sincerely believe that it is better to be responsible for someone’s death rather than tell a lie, that’s your decision to make. I won’t stand in your way.
Telling lies should never be our standard, but what it comes down to is, which is worse: telling a lie, or saving a life. For me, life-saving is far above truth-telling. Maybe your “value hierarchy” is the opposite though. Also this is where I disagree with Phil. In this instance I believe God would want you to tell a lie, NOT the truth. Therefore in this case I don’t think telling a lie is sinning, because sinning is doing something wrong.
The discussion was interesting but I don’t see how it explains that Morrie was right. He was deceiving and manipulating people to get them to do the right thing which the way he did that was by sinning in other ways. Examples:
1. He stole information (which Suzu says he doesn’t steal in Rydell Realizations; however, earlier in the Rydell Revelations he says he took information which is still stealing even though he didn’t take anything physical).
2nd point: Attempted murder… he could actually be arrested for this if Emily pressed charges. They have the evidence and it does sound as if he actually was attempting murder. And murder is a sin! No sugarcoating it.
Point number 3: Another way he stole (my definition of stealing is taking or tampering with anything that isn’t your property btw) Back to the Key Suspect, he tampers with all the lockers in the school (notice I’m ignoring Suzu’s part in this not because I think she’s right but because Morrie’s the mastermind and he’s the focus for everybody anyway) I think you could take the whole thing with the lockers in other directions but if you decide to mess with someone else’s property you might as well steal it. Again not saying it’s right, in fact, I’m saying the opposite here.
4th point: Another time he stole: He literally took Whit’s imagination station plans to recreate a portal imagination station. I don’t understand why Whit is hard on Renee but he all but ignores Morrie when this happens. It just doesn’t make sense to me but that’s the norm now with the Rydell Saga.
5. Rydell Revelation part 1. Morrie lies to Whit’s face about the kidnapping to try and cover up his past sins.
Some extra stuff that Morrie does that wouldn’t be necessarily considered a sin because he doesn’t break a commandment:
Parker For President: Stirring up controversy. Proverbs warns on this all the time. And in Proverbs 6:16-19 actually talks about this very thing as the last thing (of 7) that God hates.
I don’t really know what to think of Secret of the Writer’s Ruse, because he technically doesn’t do anything wrong. In fact I’d dismiss the episode if it wasn’t for the final 5 minutes of Whit and Morrie’s monologues. But yeah. Interested in hearing other people’s thoughts on this.
It’s interesting that Phil goes to the whole is lying right or wrong issue because that’s not the only issue in the Morrie Rydell Saga. I’ve met people like Morrie (not exactly like him but with the manipulation thing) so I’m coming at this a little personally since I can relate to Emily. I’ve never had it as bad as her but I’ve had to deal with manipulation too. I think most of us probably know that person who stirs up conflict in different ways. Sometimes it’s gossip. Sometimes it’s creating conflict that hurts the other person while trying to get them to do something they want them to do. Like Morrie did.
I actually went through a Proverbs study at my church’s Sunday school recently and they actually went through this very thing (stirring up conflicts) so it’s interesting after hearing that study in particular, in regards to this Saga.
Sorry if this was long-winded. Boom! That’s all my thoughts about the Rydell Saga in 1 comment. Lol Feel free to challenge me on any point. It helps to strengthen my faith if people debate me on different issues like these as long as it doesn’t get hostile. But since this is an AIO fan blog, it probably won’t. 🙃 And who knows, you may get me to change my mind on any of these points.
We finally get the answer: there is no answer.
Hahaha, your’e so right!
BTW: I live about two hours away from Liberty😆.
Lol that’s too far 😉
Yup. I do come up there occasionally😆😆
lee, thanks for making these podcasts and getting all these different responses. lots to think through.
Gosh, this is fascinating.
Lying is telling something untrue to intentionally deceive someone. Omission is intentionally leaving out details to deceive. So on the topic of half-truths and omission, I think they can be just as bad as lying if the intention is to deceive. I personally think situations, like when Irena Sendler lied, are justified. But it’s not an easy topic and a multi-dimensional one. This is definitely something that has piqued my interest. I’m going to be looking into it further. Thanks, Phil Lollar for that 😀
….But tying this back to Morrie, he is still 100% in the wrong IMO. But I’m very excited to hear the whole interview.
Literally studying a book called The Prince by Machiavelli and come to the question of “do the ends justify the means”….
just can’t get away from this topic😂
Don’t think my teacher will understand if I use Morrie as an example tho lol
Incredible how this kids show has sparked such a deep debate about good and evil, can’t wait to hear the rest of the Morrie, Suzu, Emily arc!
Exactly! I love that Odyssey has dared go this way and started these discussions!
Machiavelli certainly believed that the ends justify the means. However, Phil doesn’t. He believes that the ends were good and the means were good. There was no need to justify them. That’s a slightly different topic and is more eerie in a way.
That’s definitely what bothers me the most about these episodes is Phil trying to tell us what Morrie did was right…..
I can kinda get on board with Morrie acting for the right reasons but justifying his actions goes too far.
How is Phil endorsing what Morrie did? Not sure if I follow.
Have you ever heard Lamplighter Theater “The Hidden Hand”
The main character sounds like Connie. One of the lines she says is “absolutely not.” So the answer of “was Morrie right” Capitolia comes crashing in on her hose shooting peas out of a gun saying Absolutely Not!!
Katie Leigh, the voice actress for Connie Kendall, plays a lead role in The Hidden Hand. I haven’t heard that Lamplighter yet though.
Haven’t listened to the whole thing yet, but it sounds like the person interviewing Phil Lollar is saying that half truths are OK, which I don’t think they are. But I agree with Mr. Lollar that God uses people to fulfill his will, in some cases lying to protect peoples’ lives. I believe that telling the truth should always be a moral standard, but some of Christ’s commands take higher priority, for example protecting others.
No, the person interviewing Phil is not saying that half truths are ok. And Phil is absolutely wrong that we get to pick and choose what moral standards to follow in order to “protect” others. What made you think I believed half truths were fine?
You kept talking about them as though that was different from lying somehow. If, like you guys were talking about, some bullies asked you point blank where the kid getting picked on was, would you tell them, and risk him getting hurt/killed? I think you have a moral obligation not to. You can either say you don’t know, which is telling a lie to protect the innocent, or you can say that you won’t tell them, which wouldn’t be lying, but could mean you getting hurt/killed. That decision is up to you. However, as a Christian it is your duty not to say where they are. That’s what I believe.
You said that God telling Samuel to go to Bethlehem in ‘disguise’ is “a half truth” so you’re saying/admitting that God has told people to tell half-truths to fulfill his plan, which as you say are as bad as lies. So you’re saying that it is permissible to lie under certain circumstances, which I agree with. God will not hold us blameless if we let someone die because we failed to lie to keep them alive. So you sin if you tell a lie, or you sin by letting someone die. Once again it comes back to a “hierarchy of values.” If you sincerely believe that it is better to be responsible for someone’s death rather than tell a lie, that’s your decision to make. I won’t stand in your way.
Telling lies should never be our standard, but what it comes down to is, which is worse: telling a lie, or saving a life. For me, life-saving is far above truth-telling. Maybe your “value hierarchy” is the opposite though. Also this is where I disagree with Phil. In this instance I believe God would want you to tell a lie, NOT the truth. Therefore in this case I don’t think telling a lie is sinning, because sinning is doing something wrong.
The discussion was interesting but I don’t see how it explains that Morrie was right. He was deceiving and manipulating people to get them to do the right thing which the way he did that was by sinning in other ways. Examples:
1. He stole information (which Suzu says he doesn’t steal in Rydell Realizations; however, earlier in the Rydell Revelations he says he took information which is still stealing even though he didn’t take anything physical).
2nd point: Attempted murder… he could actually be arrested for this if Emily pressed charges. They have the evidence and it does sound as if he actually was attempting murder. And murder is a sin! No sugarcoating it.
Point number 3: Another way he stole (my definition of stealing is taking or tampering with anything that isn’t your property btw) Back to the Key Suspect, he tampers with all the lockers in the school (notice I’m ignoring Suzu’s part in this not because I think she’s right but because Morrie’s the mastermind and he’s the focus for everybody anyway) I think you could take the whole thing with the lockers in other directions but if you decide to mess with someone else’s property you might as well steal it. Again not saying it’s right, in fact, I’m saying the opposite here.
4th point: Another time he stole: He literally took Whit’s imagination station plans to recreate a portal imagination station. I don’t understand why Whit is hard on Renee but he all but ignores Morrie when this happens. It just doesn’t make sense to me but that’s the norm now with the Rydell Saga.
5. Rydell Revelation part 1. Morrie lies to Whit’s face about the kidnapping to try and cover up his past sins.
Some extra stuff that Morrie does that wouldn’t be necessarily considered a sin because he doesn’t break a commandment:
Parker For President: Stirring up controversy. Proverbs warns on this all the time. And in Proverbs 6:16-19 actually talks about this very thing as the last thing (of 7) that God hates.
I don’t really know what to think of Secret of the Writer’s Ruse, because he technically doesn’t do anything wrong. In fact I’d dismiss the episode if it wasn’t for the final 5 minutes of Whit and Morrie’s monologues. But yeah. Interested in hearing other people’s thoughts on this.
It’s interesting that Phil goes to the whole is lying right or wrong issue because that’s not the only issue in the Morrie Rydell Saga. I’ve met people like Morrie (not exactly like him but with the manipulation thing) so I’m coming at this a little personally since I can relate to Emily. I’ve never had it as bad as her but I’ve had to deal with manipulation too. I think most of us probably know that person who stirs up conflict in different ways. Sometimes it’s gossip. Sometimes it’s creating conflict that hurts the other person while trying to get them to do something they want them to do. Like Morrie did.
I actually went through a Proverbs study at my church’s Sunday school recently and they actually went through this very thing (stirring up conflicts) so it’s interesting after hearing that study in particular, in regards to this Saga.
Sorry if this was long-winded. Boom! That’s all my thoughts about the Rydell Saga in 1 comment. Lol Feel free to challenge me on any point. It helps to strengthen my faith if people debate me on different issues like these as long as it doesn’t get hostile. But since this is an AIO fan blog, it probably won’t. 🙃 And who knows, you may get me to change my mind on any of these points.