On what would have been an edition of the AIOWiki Podcast, Ryan Matlock joins Lee and Arista to review “B-TV: Trinity” (edited by Scott Beall). Differing opinions fly on the characters, the B-TV format, and Sam Suksiri’s theology. Join us as AIO Audio News presents the Backlog of the AIOWiki Podcast!
Listen to more of the AIOWiki Podcast: AIOWiki.com
Great!
Alright, I must say this. What Ryan said about why the Trinity makes sense to him makes no sense to me at all. God is love, yes. And he needs relationship. The angels were created to serve and worship God, until Lucifer rebelled and was cast from heaven, thus becoming Satan. So God lacked people to have relationship and to worship him. So he formed the world the way he would know it, and then created humanity, to love him and worship him, and that God could love, but most of all, to have relationship.
Besides, I would pose the question, can God love himself? He wants us to not, so would he? God doesn’t contradict himself.
Alright, I’m done. Shoot me any pushbacks you have, this is just my own opinion.
Hey Gabriel!
Excellent questions. I’d love to explore this as best I can.
Can God love himself? Well, Jesus states in John 3:35 that, “The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands.”. And the beginning of the book of John tells us that Jesus was in the beginning with God, and He was God. So it would seem from these texts that God does indeed love the Son, who is in at the same time, Himself.
But you say God doesn’t want us to love ourselves, so wouldn’t God loving himself be a contradiction? My belief is that God never actually tells us not to love ourselves. We’re certainly not to be narcissistic by any means, but Philippians 2:3-4 acknowledges that we have personal needs when it says, “look out not only for your own interests, but ALSO for the interest of others.”
So if love is serving others in some way, it’s not necessarily that we aren’t to serve our interests or take care of our needs. It’s natural and easy for us to love ourselves, even to the fault of selfishness. It’s the selfishness that is the problem, which is why God tells us to put others first, and love them more than we love ourselves.
Thus, I don’t believe it’s a contradiction for God to love the Son because none of it is selfish. In fact, He loved us so much that He gave his only Son to die for our sins. That displays His unselfish love, that though He loves the Son (who is also God), He puts humanity before that by sacrificing and dying for them.
All that said, it brings us back to your initial comment, which is that God needs relationship, and created us to fulfill that need. I don’t know that I agree with this because it implies that God is not self-sufficient. God is unchanging, which means He is self-sufficient now, and was self-sufficient even before creating humans or angels. He is not dependent on humanity for anything.
As far as I’m aware, the Bible doesn’t explain why God created humans or anything for that matter. It only says that He did it. So to attribute His creating us to a need is to view God as we view humans. One might say, “John made a house because he needed shelter.” But God is our creator, and I think it makes much more sense to say he created everything including us because He is a creative God who makes and does good. But not because He was deficient.
I hope I explained my position on it all properly. Likewise, this is my understanding, so feel free to shoot back any pushbacks of your own.
Hello there, Ryan! Thank you for responding to my comment. So, here is my thoughts, to your thoughts, on my thoughts.
First of all, I’d like to retract my statement of “God doesn’t want us to love ourselves, and God doesn’t contradict himself.” The second half of that statement is true.
My understanding of the Father and the Son is that Jesus (when walking on this Earth) was 100% God, and 100% man, and that the Son is the man—the flesh. I would point to the Garden of Gethsemane. “…‘O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will.’” (Matthew 26:39 NKJV) He knew what was going to happen to him, as he was all knowing as God, but his flesh, the Son, didn’t want to. But he submitted himself to the Will of God. So when Jesus refers to the Son, He is referring to the man they saw walking among them, yet they could not see the spirit of God that was in him as well.
To your point, I would perhaps change my original statement of “needs relationship” to “wants relationship.” To use your example of John, John would also need food as well. But say if he wants, a clock, or a book, or something that helps him with a normal day. Does he need those things? Not really. But he desires it. I know it’s not a perfect example, but I also am by no means an authority on this subject.
So God wants a relationship, and wants him to be glorified. And since Satan a third of the angels—all of whom were the worshipers—then God is lacking something he wants. Something he desires. So, he creates Earth, and soon thereafter man and woman. They do have free will, whether to worship or not; whether to have a relationship or not; and whether to obey him or not. Adam and Eve decided not to. They had a choice. And decided not to obey God, which comprises the relationship and worship aspects of it.
As to why I believe humans were created for worship, I will add this: Why does Satan hate us so much? He doesn’t hate lions, tigers, or bears. He hates us; humans. He had come to steal, kill, and destroy. Who does he want to do those things? Us. Because we were created to worship God, and to have a relationship with him. And boy, does Satan absolutely hate that.
I hope likewise I’m clear, and that I don’t seem like I’m getting argumentative. Please give me any pushbacks if you have any. I would like to discuss this further.
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