Hi Michael. You released this episode on… today! 😀
(No, I don’t feel clever at the moment.)
Interesting discussion on a lot of things tangental to this episode—which is why I love AIO Audio Revi-news!
I believe I agree with y’all’s conclusion on the “should non-believers be invited to church or not” discussion. I think it can be helpful in some conversions, but the goal is getting people to relate to Jesus, thus the easiest way is to help them relate to us as we let Christ shine through our lives. (The November Club episode, “Being Real,” I think is a great example of that and a juxtaposition to Connie/Katrina’s reaction.) For this particular case with Jules and Buck, I can see how the church setting, with it’s God-focused atmosphere and potential friends who are hopefully Christ-like, can be beneficial to encouraging a walk with Christ.
I would like to push back on “Non-believers shouldn’t participate in worship.” I don’t know y’all’s definition of worship, but mine is that it’s focused recognition of a person or thing, in which I hope any agnostic would feel more than welcome to participate. I also view it as different from communion given that the Bible only lays out communion in particular—more importantly the deeper spiritual meaning which I don’t feel up to detail at the moment—whereas worship/sacrifice wasn’t restricted to God’s children in the Bible. (I’m willing to be corrected if that last statement is wrong, of course.) I don’t believe it’s wrong for a nonbeliever to sing a song that testifies of God—again, it induces the thought about God into their mind. I do concede that some songs talk exclusively from the believer’s perspective, in which case it’d be up to the nonbeliever or not.
Agreed on Jules’ toxicity. I cannot begin to see how Buck rationally decided that he’d fall in love with a manipulative freak after escaping from a manipulative father figure (Skint). There’s always a point where you can choose to step away from a relationship before it grows into something serious. (I’m not the relationship guru, though, so I’ll concede if Ryan corrects me.) Buck chose this relationship by choosing feelings over facts, and that’s why I don’t believe he’s ready for a relationship, at his age or not.
As for Jules… she can go take a hike up a really tall mountain and sit there for a really, really long time for all I care.
Sarcastic side note: Stop being so ominous with these titles and teases! I’m gonna start to loose sleep over this.
Very insightful man! Thanks for the comments!! I’ll briefly talk about my perspective on worship.
Whenever I’ve been in a setting that involves believers singing hymns or worship songs together, I have always recognize those times as, like you said, focused recognition. It’s really meaningful for me, as a Christian, to be able to express my praise in that specific way. However, there are a few rare times when something in a worship song concerns me. sometimes it’s a turn of phrase, sometimes it’s a theme that’s presented. Those are times when I feel taken out of the moment with other believers and turn to more thinking critically about why I’m singing. It becomes unfocused rather than focused.
If a non-believer is singing worship songs, and they don’t actually believe that the object of their focus is truly who He says He is, I would imagine they would be having this reaction the entire time. Worship songs assert things about God by their very nature that would need to be uncontested in order to even be sung sincerely. I don’t know that I would encourage anyone to sing something in a worship setting (where you’re not playing a character, you’re singing as yourself) if they don’t believe the words they’re singing. Does that make sense?
Glad you’re enjoying these reviews. Although, by the way you’re commenting, I get the feeling you have no idea what’s coming at the end of this. Which is okay. Just remember… this is the true ending.
Thank you for replying!
You’re very welcome–although it goes without saying that y’all’s thoughtful discussions on the pod have played no small role in that.
It does make sense, thank you for clarifying. The way I heard it on the pod seemed more… extreme? decisive? than your comment worded it. Thus, in light of your reply, I believe we can agree.
What you described (the out-of-moment occurrences during worship) has happened to me several times as well. So I do understand how a non-Christian would have that same reaction without prior biblical understanding. Perhaps that is further reason for not bringing nonbelievers directly to church service as a way of “quick salvation”? (I’m still struggling with my opinion on that question.)
The key in your reply for me was “wouldn’t encourage;” that nonbelievers shouldn’t be outright encouraged to sing with the congregation. Whereas, I had understood the position previously as “disallow”; that nonbelievers would be restricted from singing–in that case they couldn’t sing Christmas songs. In conclusion, I do believe one shouldn’t ask another to sing something it’s unknown he believes or not.
I hope that has more English than Eugenish, lol.
My word, Lee, you have a serious case of the cryptics.
I always frame my comments in such a way that invites feedback; however, I realize and accept that not every invitation might will be answered.
I’m beginning to see how this was the “True Ending,” although the words “halfway point” had initially confused me, since I had assumed it meant “halfway point of the true ending.” Now it starts to make sense.
Been catching up on all the new podcast episodes the past two weeks and man—listening to you and Ryan really brought me back to a couple years ago when I religiously listened to Odyssey & of course AIO Audio News as well. Absolutely love the back and forth you & Ryan have and how deeply y’all delve into these episodes, it makes for such an engaging listen!!
Thank you for your dedication to releasing these after so long, it makes me so happy and I eagerly await the coming parts ☺️ God bless!
Hi Michael. You released this episode on… today! 😀
(No, I don’t feel clever at the moment.)
Interesting discussion on a lot of things tangental to this episode—which is why I love AIO Audio Revi-news!
I believe I agree with y’all’s conclusion on the “should non-believers be invited to church or not” discussion. I think it can be helpful in some conversions, but the goal is getting people to relate to Jesus, thus the easiest way is to help them relate to us as we let Christ shine through our lives. (The November Club episode, “Being Real,” I think is a great example of that and a juxtaposition to Connie/Katrina’s reaction.) For this particular case with Jules and Buck, I can see how the church setting, with it’s God-focused atmosphere and potential friends who are hopefully Christ-like, can be beneficial to encouraging a walk with Christ.
I would like to push back on “Non-believers shouldn’t participate in worship.” I don’t know y’all’s definition of worship, but mine is that it’s focused recognition of a person or thing, in which I hope any agnostic would feel more than welcome to participate. I also view it as different from communion given that the Bible only lays out communion in particular—more importantly the deeper spiritual meaning which I don’t feel up to detail at the moment—whereas worship/sacrifice wasn’t restricted to God’s children in the Bible. (I’m willing to be corrected if that last statement is wrong, of course.) I don’t believe it’s wrong for a nonbeliever to sing a song that testifies of God—again, it induces the thought about God into their mind. I do concede that some songs talk exclusively from the believer’s perspective, in which case it’d be up to the nonbeliever or not.
Agreed on Jules’ toxicity. I cannot begin to see how Buck rationally decided that he’d fall in love with a manipulative freak after escaping from a manipulative father figure (Skint). There’s always a point where you can choose to step away from a relationship before it grows into something serious. (I’m not the relationship guru, though, so I’ll concede if Ryan corrects me.) Buck chose this relationship by choosing feelings over facts, and that’s why I don’t believe he’s ready for a relationship, at his age or not.
As for Jules… she can go take a hike up a really tall mountain and sit there for a really, really long time for all I care.
Sarcastic side note: Stop being so ominous with these titles and teases! I’m gonna start to loose sleep over this.
Very insightful man! Thanks for the comments!! I’ll briefly talk about my perspective on worship.
Whenever I’ve been in a setting that involves believers singing hymns or worship songs together, I have always recognize those times as, like you said, focused recognition. It’s really meaningful for me, as a Christian, to be able to express my praise in that specific way. However, there are a few rare times when something in a worship song concerns me. sometimes it’s a turn of phrase, sometimes it’s a theme that’s presented. Those are times when I feel taken out of the moment with other believers and turn to more thinking critically about why I’m singing. It becomes unfocused rather than focused.
If a non-believer is singing worship songs, and they don’t actually believe that the object of their focus is truly who He says He is, I would imagine they would be having this reaction the entire time. Worship songs assert things about God by their very nature that would need to be uncontested in order to even be sung sincerely. I don’t know that I would encourage anyone to sing something in a worship setting (where you’re not playing a character, you’re singing as yourself) if they don’t believe the words they’re singing. Does that make sense?
Glad you’re enjoying these reviews. Although, by the way you’re commenting, I get the feeling you have no idea what’s coming at the end of this. Which is okay. Just remember… this is the true ending.
Thank you for replying!
You’re very welcome–although it goes without saying that y’all’s thoughtful discussions on the pod have played no small role in that.
It does make sense, thank you for clarifying. The way I heard it on the pod seemed more… extreme? decisive? than your comment worded it. Thus, in light of your reply, I believe we can agree.
What you described (the out-of-moment occurrences during worship) has happened to me several times as well. So I do understand how a non-Christian would have that same reaction without prior biblical understanding. Perhaps that is further reason for not bringing nonbelievers directly to church service as a way of “quick salvation”? (I’m still struggling with my opinion on that question.)
The key in your reply for me was “wouldn’t encourage;” that nonbelievers shouldn’t be outright encouraged to sing with the congregation. Whereas, I had understood the position previously as “disallow”; that nonbelievers would be restricted from singing–in that case they couldn’t sing Christmas songs. In conclusion, I do believe one shouldn’t ask another to sing something it’s unknown he believes or not.
I hope that has more English than Eugenish, lol.
My word, Lee, you have a serious case of the cryptics.
I always frame my comments in such a way that invites feedback; however, I realize and accept that not every invitation might will be answered.
I’m beginning to see how this was the “True Ending,” although the words “halfway point” had initially confused me, since I had assumed it meant “halfway point of the true ending.” Now it starts to make sense.
Been catching up on all the new podcast episodes the past two weeks and man—listening to you and Ryan really brought me back to a couple years ago when I religiously listened to Odyssey & of course AIO Audio News as well. Absolutely love the back and forth you & Ryan have and how deeply y’all delve into these episodes, it makes for such an engaging listen!!
Thank you for your dedication to releasing these after so long, it makes me so happy and I eagerly await the coming parts ☺️ God bless!